TwilightACADEMY

Ahhh the is bella selfish or selfless arguement?

personally, i think Jacob is 99% of the reason as to why she got on my nerves, because he guilted her into so many things during Eclipse which made Bella seem quite annoying to me. I just wanted to shake her and be like "girl! Jacob doesn't like you as friend and he's a manipulative a-hole".

But it is a book after all.

morgan wrote:Ahhh the is bella selfish or selfless arguement?

personally, i think Jacob is 99% of the reason as to why she got on my nerves, because he guilted her into so many things during Eclipse which made Bella seem quite annoying to me. I just wanted to shake her and be like "girl! Jacob doesn't like you as friend and he's a manipulative a-hole".

But it is a book after all.

I was thinking the same way. He always manipulated her and made her feel guilty. There was the visiting, the kiss, the other kiss, and the other kiss, the "suicide" attempt. It was just really frustrating. I could see it because of my past bf. I was always manipulated into feeling like the bad guy and in retrospect I was a fool. I wish she could just see that she is being played like a fool.

^^^
Agree about being played. It takes being played once to be able to recognize it, IMO. So not all Bella's fault (glares at Jacob), but she didn't really help the situation much. And Edward's too amazingly perfect to really do much because he wants her to be happy.

morgan wrote:Ahhh the is bella selfish or selfless arguement?

personally, i think Jacob is 99% of the reason as to why she got on my nerves, because he guilted her into so many things during Eclipse which made Bella seem quite annoying to me. I just wanted to shake her and be like "girl! Jacob doesn't like you as friend and he's a manipulative a-hole".

But it is a book after all.

I have to admit, this is exactly what I thought as well. I mean, yes, in the end, she did some things that were a little selfish. Like keeping Jacob close to her, even if she knew how she felt and how he'd never really be satisfied with just being friends. But I dunno, to me, she was hurting so bad from Edward's departure and I'm not saying that excuses selfishness but it's a very human thing to do.

I think that of course she acted selfish, but have you thought about , that without Edward
not fighting she probably would have been dead?
That's no excuse.. I just kind of found it interesting...

Bella also annoys me, but not only because of her selfishness... also because she sometimes appears quite silly.. almost a bit stupid..I just got that impression..like when she doesn't realize that Jacob plays games. She also doesn't realize that Edward might be manipulating her too ( I agree with Jake on this point)

Where do you think Edward manipulates her?

I never really quite got that impression. I'm curious.

well I think it's about the 'competition' between him and Jacob (It's just kind of hard to explain ,sorry xD)...I think he sometimes pretends to be calm and not jealous..he tells bella that it's only about her security, but he admits that he's jealous when he talks to jake.
I don't mean that it's really a bad way of manipulation, as Jake sees it. He probably only doesn't want to lose Bella..
I hope I could make it at least a bit understandable xD if not ..uhh...forget about it^^

DiamondsAreForever wrote:well I think it's about the 'competition' between him and Jacob (It's just kind of hard to explain ,sorry xD)...I think he sometimes pretends to be calm and not jealous..he tells bella that it's only about her security, but he admits that he's jealous when he talks to jake.
I don't mean that it's really a bad way of manipulation, as Jake sees it. He probably only doesn't want to lose Bella..
I hope I could make it at least a bit understandable xD if not ..uhh...forget about it^^

I definitely get you here.

I just find it sweet that he doesn't want Bella to know that she's hurting him.

Plus it's healthy for a little competition every now and again, and what boyfriend wouldn't get a bit protective?

I love the bit in Eclipse when Bella wants to go see Jacob but Edward pulls the truck apart! Fight for what's yours Edward!

MyMidnightSun wrote:Plus it's healthy for a little competition every now and again, and what boyfriend wouldn't get a bit protective?

I love the bit in Eclipse when Bella wants to go see Jacob but Edward pulls the truck apart! Fight for what's yours Edward!

Hell yeah!

Oh dear, it looks like I'm the only one Bella doesn't annoy.

I have to say, I love Bella, Edward and Jake, and none of them annoy me. That's a lie. Jake annoys me a wee bit, but it's mainly because he's a young boy who's making mistakes - but that's just who he is, and I can forgive that. As someone else said, if you love someone, you take them as they are, warts and all. And I really like Jacob.

Bella doesn't annoy me when she's being selfish. Mainly because I don't think she's being selfish on purpose. Remember, Bella is just a normal girl - yet she's having to deal with the fact that her boyfriend in a vampire, her best friend is a werewolf, they both wouldn't mind all that much if they happened to kill the other, and there are some nasty newborns coming to twon and Victoria wants her dead. That is a hell of a lot to cope with, and I think it's fair enough that she'll make mistakes along the way. And all her selfish acts are based on love, really - it's not just for herself, she doesn't want these people getting hurt.
That was all Eclipse, really. Back track to New Moon. Ok so it could be considered selfish how she treated Jake, but she needed him. Without him, god knows what would have happened to her. But he needed her too. I have no doubt that her being kind of on the outside helped him when he became a werewolf, he had someone else to talk to, to confide in. They needed each other, and they both took comfort from each other. It's only natural that something grew from that.

As to the Edward - Jake competition.. I have no problem with what either of them did. I think it was a bit harsh for Jake saying he'd let himself get killed in the fight, but Edward isn't completely innocent either. But I think it's understandable. They're both having to face with losing the one they love, and they're doing all they can to try and keep her. They may not have gone the right way about it, but it's understandable.

Perhaps I'm just too empathetic, lol.

Molly wrote:Does Bella ever get on your nerves?

After about the third time I read them she was getting pretty annoying to me.

It seems kind of blasphemous to say that, but it's true.

yes! she does! but hey, as long as their patience lasts, then it's okay for her. i gotta admit, she's a brunette ditz. but i can't hate her, mainly becuase i'm much like her too, in many ways. no, my hair's black, but i just don't comprehend everything when it's so OBVIOUS! plus other strange things she does(her selfishness ). so i'd be calling myself a hypocrite if i thought she was totally a bad thing, because i certainly think she's contributed a lot of good things in the book.

DiamondsAreForever wrote:well I think it's about the 'competition' between him and Jacob (It's just kind of hard to explain ,sorry xD)...I think he sometimes pretends to be calm and not jealous..he tells bella that it's only about her security, but he admits that he's jealous when he talks to jake.
I don't mean that it's really a bad way of manipulation, as Jake sees it. He probably only doesn't want to lose Bella..
I hope I could make it at least a bit understandable xD if not ..uhh...forget about it^^

i was thinking that too. like Edward has learned his lesson when without Bella, so he'll play the good guy to keep her with him. i mean, everyone always says to be the bigger person by being kind and loving, and i guess that's what he's doing. besides, participating in any game always takes some manipulation, and Edward's doing it the "bigger" way.

i also remember that in Eclipse, after Jake got hurt, Edward was in pain too. he became so sympathetic towards him "like a brother" or something like that. Charlie even liked it! i'm pretty sure he wasn't just"acting", which is even more awesome. oh Edward.......

okay, sorry for the rant. it should've gone to the Edward Cullen forum...

Jo wrote:Oh dear, it looks like I'm the only one Bella doesn't annoy.

I have to say, I love Bella, Edward and Jake, and none of them annoy me. That's a lie. Jake annoys me a wee bit, but it's mainly because he's a young boy who's making mistakes - but that's just who he is, and I can forgive that. As someone else said, if you love someone, you take them as they are, warts and all. And I really like Jacob.

Bella doesn't annoy me when she's being selfish. Mainly because I don't think she's being selfish on purpose. Remember, Bella is just a normal girl - yet she's having to deal with the fact that her boyfriend in a vampire, her best friend is a werewolf, they both wouldn't mind all that much if they happened to kill the other, and there are some nasty newborns coming to twon and Victoria wants her dead. That is a hell of a lot to cope with, and I think it's fair enough that she'll make mistakes along the way. And all her selfish acts are based on love, really - it's not just for herself, she doesn't want these people getting hurt.
That was all Eclipse, really. Back track to New Moon. Ok so it could be considered selfish how she treated Jake, but she needed him. Without him, god knows what would have happened to her. But he needed her too. I have no doubt that her being kind of on the outside helped him when he became a werewolf, he had someone else to talk to, to confide in. They needed each other, and they both took comfort from each other. It's only natural that something grew from that.

As to the Edward - Jake competition.. I have no problem with what either of them did. I think it was a bit harsh for Jake saying he'd let himself get killed in the fight, but Edward isn't completely innocent either. But I think it's understandable. They're both having to face with losing the one they love, and they're doing all they can to try and keep her. They may not have gone the right way about it, but it's understandable.

Perhaps I'm just too empathetic, lol.

you do make it really understandable. i guess some of us forgot about the mistakes you can make with the lives of Bella/Edward/Jake, especially if you've read it a lot. no offense on this comparison, but it's like Paris Hilton, if you're exposed to too much of it, you criticize.

YES!!!

Okay, here's my opinion of Bella.

In Twilight, I absolutely loved her. She had spunk, wit, and seemed to really know what she wanted in life. I saw her as a fantastic role model, and actually tried to use her as an example of how to act in life. She was independent, yet still adhered to the needs of others, while still keeping her spine in tact.

In New Moon, I was understanding. I didn't love her quite as much, but she had also been through a lot of traumatic experiences, and had absolutely no one to talk about any of it with, since clearly she couldn't go around telling people about vampires. Yes, she did have Jake, but he wasn't exactly the person who wanted to hear about her problems with Edward - her vampire boyfriend. Then when Edward returned to Forks, I understood why she doubted him. But I was happy when her spunk returned, and she asked for a vote, because once more, I saw her gaining back her spunk and wit.

Then there was Eclipse. I felt as though both Bella and Edward changed dramatically in the third book. Edward became annoyingly over-protective, and Bella kind of let him walk all over her. I felt as though she lost a lot of the wit, spunk, and independence that really made me fall in love with her character in the first place. All of her humorous sarcastic remarks vanished, and she just seemed kind of meek and subservient to me. I actually found myself wishing she would choose Jake at some points, because he allowed her to be who she was originally.

I really hope Bella gains back some of what I loved about her in Breaking Dawn.